161: Retreat Dhamma Talk 56: Extinction of Rounds (ViVatta)

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Recruit series Avatar number fifty six Amitard. We were discussing about Widda in English call round. So we approached today. We widda. We widda. Lack of rounds. Extinctions of rounds. When there's no thirst for craving. When there's no thirst for any type of feelings. Craving times after feeling. So let's go to the feeling. When there's no thirst for any type of feeling, understanding of this word, we would die. Or extinction of realms. And the fading away of the view of I becomes clearer and clearer with time. Nothing happens in a flesh, in an instant and blinding light. It is a process of evolution. You come to understand. You keep practicing and again and again with time and with time it becomes clearer and clearer, sharper and sharper. So basically, we live with the concept of atta, self and a soul. So when we have we with the extinction of runs, in the place of this self or soul, the process of mind and matter become more evident. The process of mind and matter become more evident. So this unpleasant feeling, pleasant feeling, neutral feelings, when we say feeling, there are three types of feeling. These feelings are the cause. And simply an experience is the effect. In a state of, we would die. All these feelings, they're still there. And they are the causes for a experience. Experience become the effect. With the deeper and deeper understanding of this causal relation, cause and effect. How? You observe again and again and again. With a deeper understanding of this causal relation, awajya ignore us is abandoned. Then once the awajya is abandoned, the craving dadna, grasping upadana. They stop arising. When the craving and grasping stop arising, you have broken the change of wutta. You have broken the change of round. So these three round process, okay. You remember what are these three rounds are? Rounds of mental defilement, rounds of actions, and rounds of results. These three round processes are always spinning and spinning, rotating automatically, profusely, and continuously in every unmindful state. If one is not mindful, those three rounds are spinning nonstop. And they arise like anything else. They arise and they passed away, they arise and they passed away at an extreme speed. Extreme speed. And a billionth of a second, many billionths of a second rate. At that rate they are arising and passing away. All the time, every time. So we can't figure it out. We don't know. We have no access to figure out or to know how they are arising and passing away. But let's look at the same thing in a big picture. In a big picture, it is the endless cycle of birth and death, and birth and death, and birth and death. In other words, there's a Pali what calls sansara, endless cycle of birth and death. So if you look on a big picture basis, that rising and passing away of these three rounds in a high speed, you can see, observe, at the endless round of birth and death or rebirths taking place. When wutta or the round, when the round stop, sansara stop. Wutta keep spinning, sansara keep going on. That's not the right relationship. So let's see this um wutta in a mood, in a three-segment way. One is mental defilement, kilisa. Okay, kilisa, mental defilement. When mental defilement stops, what is this effect? Effect of mental defilement. It is actions, karma. When kilis are small, karma stop. Because karma is the effect. And what is karma? Karma is all the wholesome actions and unwholesome actions. You can call it simply actions, you can call it actions of the body, the speech and the mind, or you can also call it wholesome actions and unwholesome actions. That's karma. So when Kilitas stop, all wholesome actions stops and all unwholesome actions stop. We are trying to split the action into two, wholesome and unwholesome. Now there is another little part, but very important part one we need to know. There is another kind of wholesome action, or you can call it an Pali Kusala. Wholesome is kusala, wholesome is kusala, unwholesome is a kusala. Apart from those things there is another kind of wholesome actions or kusala. But this one we'll call it extraordinary wholesome action. Extraordinary wholesome actions. Wholesome actions produced by practicing bhavana. And this bhavana kusala or extraordinary wholesome action, it doesn't operate under the law of cause and effect. Because this bhavana kusla stops the cycle of becoming or in other words the cycle of rebirth. Bhava na kusla stops the cycle of rebirth. So it doesn't operate under the law of continuity of cause and effect. There is no kilesa mental defilement. If there is no kilesa, there will be no lobad dosa and moha mental defilements or no wholesome actions and unwholesome actions. But when we say wholesome actions here, we mean rebirth producing wholesome actions. Rebirth producing wholesome actions. When you simply say kusala, wholesome action means rebirth producing wholesome actions. But the other wholesome actions called bhavana kusala or satipattana kusala. But if you practice the satipattana or if you develop satipattana kusala, we bagat resultant or rebirth. Simply stop. So that little part one need to understand with clarity. Not all kusala. Kusala need to be put in two parts. One is the rebirth producing kusala, another one is the rebirth stopping kusala or bhavana kusala or extraordinary wholesome actions. So in here these three rounds. What are the three rounds? The rounds of mental defilement, the rounds of actions, the rounds of result. They spin round and round and round non-stop. Under what circumstances? Under the unmindful circumstances, unmindful state. In the unmindful mind, those three rounds are spinning, rotating, non-stop. But if one established this, bhavana kusala or satipattana kusala or you can call it extraordinary wholesome action. If you establish that wutta, the rounds is extinguished. That's how you extinguish the wutta, the rounds. So we are talking with words from the scripture. Let's see in the practice, you are meditating. Let's take it to the practical field. In a practical field, you observed. What are we doing? We are always observing the object that is arising at the moment. When it is, when you're observing with mindfulness, precisely and correctly, at that moment you cut one gudta, one round. If you have precise, correct mind, one mindfulness, one round of wuddha is extinguished. Same thing. If you observe a thousand mindfulness precisely and correctly, then you have extinguished one thousand rounds of wutta. So let's say you are meditating for one month, two months, three months. Let's say during that three months you can establish 90% of the time this precise and correct mindfulness. If you can develop 90% of the time, correct and precise mindfulness, you have extinguished 90% of the wutta or round birth-producing process. Out of that three months, 90%. Or the process of wuddha is not operating because you have mindfulness. And in here, there's another thing we need to know about this wutta and we wutta. Rounds and lack of no rounds. One thing is these rounds, wuddaks are constantly rotating, rotating, rotating. And for these to rotate, you don't need any effort. You don't need to put any effort. This process, these rounds, these rounds of engine to rotate constantly, you don't need to put any effort because they have another kind of fuel that is driving that engine. That fuel is called craving, but now you don't need to put effort as long as there's a craving, craving acts like a fuel to make that engine go round and round. So that's why we don't need any effort for this round to go on and on. It's just like if you put a ball from the hilltop, it will just roll down by itself. No effort needed. That is how the rounds work, and that is the fuel that drives the engine. And now there's another cycle, let's call it a cycle, another wheel. If you have paid close attention, a month or so ago in the Dhamma Tap, we talk about the four wheels of accomplishment or wheels of accomplishment. That's a four segment. What are they having wholesome actions done in the past? Living or having opportunity to live at the suitable and right place, finding a proper, correct, and competent guide or teacher where you learn how to practice Satipattana Vipassana. And then you keep on practicing with all your effort. Those are the four parts. It connects two lifespans. Having wholesome action done in the past life. Because of that, in this life you have a suitable place, suitable teachers, but you have to practice. This practicing is you are actually creating another wholesome action so that you can have a better existence next time. And these four keep on going round and round, round and round. Then if these four things are going round and round, you are always on the right track, on the right path, on the right road towards extinction of all suffering. But for these four segments or this wheel, sacka, or secha. For this saka to go round and round, you need a great urgent effort. It doesn't rotate by itself. You need a great urgent effort and also a proper method. You can put effort in many different things, but you have to put effort in proper method, which is satipattana, mindfulness. So for this wheel to go round and round, you need great effort. As the other system, the rounds, it's just like the ball rolling down the hill. This one is by analogy, you are pedaling upstream, which is a strong current. You are pedaling upstream. That would be the analogy. You have to keep on applying effort to be mindful, to be mindful. So there are two systems. They are both wheels, they are both going round and round. The other one was butt-producing rounds. That one is bird terminating rounds. And let's look at this um rounds or lack of rounds. What's some analogy? Let's use an example. We all know there's apple tree. When we say apple tree, let's describe it so we can more clearly understand what apple tree is. Apple tree is a tree. It consists of roots, the main roots. It consists of trunk, tree trunk, branches and leaves. When you have roots, trunk, branches, and leaf, and if it grows apple, then that is called apple tree. So those are the components of an apple tree. Roots, trunk, branches, and leaves. And also when we say an apple tree, strong, healthy apple tree, that's not all. It has all it needs its environment. The environment is a good swile. Good swile to grow in. And also it needs water. And also it needs sunlight. Good swile, water, and sunlight. That is the apple tree. When we say apple tree, automatically those three requirements of the environment are already there. Without those three, there is no apple tree. You need those things. So that is how one needs to understand what apple tree is. And when all these conditions are met, strong, healthy tree, and its environment. Soil, water, and sunlight. And finally, the apple tree will produce fruits, flowers, and fruits. And then in that fruit, there's a seed. That seed will, once it drops, it will give the continuity of life. For it to grow another apple tree and then another apple tree and another apple tree. That's how its cycle goes round and round. This one we all can understand because it is right happening right under our nose and eyes. Nothing you argue. So in here, let's see this. What is this? Earth, water, and sunlight, the environmental condition that is required. Let's look at it in terms of our cycle of rebirth. So in a cycle of rebirth too, what is that? Mental defilements, actions, and rebirth. But these mental defilements, are they arising on their own? No. They need the supporting causes. Do you remember what the supporting causes are? The supporting causes are called Khama Sukha. Sense pleasure. Sense pleasure is the supporting cause. Without sense pleasure, mental defilements will not arise. So these tense pleasures are just like swile water and sunlight for the upper three. Sense pleasure. So these tense pleasures are constantly feeding and feeding. Like the swile water and sunlight feeding the tree to grow and grow and grow. These sense pleasures are feeding the kilesa to grow and to grow and to grow. That's what the karma guna sense pleasure is doing. What are they trying to do? They are trying to make kilisa grow. So kilisa is like a tree. Kilesa feeds the mental definement to grow. So kilisa is more like a tree. And kilesa, just for a little extra information, it always represents kilisa whip. Wetness. Okay, dry and wet. Wet, sticky, cohesive nature. That's what kilisa does. It makes your appetite wet and you stick to it. And it has the cohesive, it binds everything around it. So if you hear wetness, that's a kilesa. Moist, cohesive. That's the other words that represent kilesa. So sense pleasure is constantly feeding the kilisa to grow. In other words, the craving to grow, craving to grow. And when this craving grows, what happens? You start doing things, you do this, you do that, you do good things, you do bad things, because based on that craving, you do things a lot. So when you do things, what is it called in Paliwood? You are doing karma, you are accumulating karma. So this karma, or all the things that you do, in an apple tree, it is like flowers and fruits. Flowers and fruits, that's karma vipakka. And then from the fruit it drops to the ground, all other things rotten away. But the seeds remain. And if the seeds remain and if you have the right environment, it sprouts and another plants grow. Just like that. When there's a karma, that karma will produce a result. That result is called vibaka or resultant. Or rebirth. We call it rebirth for clarity purpose, so that we can understand it with our intelligent eye. So in here, there is from the point of the view of a tree, there's the sun and the water and the sun swan. They are doing their own job. They are not doing any other thing, they simply do their job. They are feeding. And then what is that? The tree. The tree is also doing its job because of those supporting elements. The tree keeps on growing and growing and growing. The tree has its own job. The trunk, the branches, the leaves. It just keeps on growing. That's their job. And then suddenly, when the right time conditions come, the fruits, flowers and fruits grow. And flowers and fruits do their own job, their own function. And the seed drop, the seed do their job. Each have their own jobs to do. Each has their own function. They are simply doing their job. They are different departments. These different departments are related through cause and effect. Just like that, the same thing. Sense pleasure. Sense pleasures are simply doing their job. And then kilesa, kilisa, mental department is doing their job. And the rebirth or resultant is doing its own job. They are all different departments. They have nothing to do one with the other, separate departments, separate jobs, separate functions, but they are connected through cause and effect, cause and effect, cause and effect. So keep that in mind. Even though these it seems like just one. No, they are very separate with different characteristics and different functions and different manifestations. If you understand that, you become clearer and clearer how life is forming. So in here, let's say For the let's use the apple tree. Apple tree keep on growing if these all these conditions are met. But if you want to kill the apple tree, how would you kill? Do you cut out all the fruits or trim some branches? Or cut the trunk, they might regrow. As long as there's uh water and soil and sunlights are there. But if you cut out the main root, the water-drinking roots, if you cut that roots out, regardless there's how much sun, how much water, how much great soil and fertilizer or nutrition are there, the tree cannot grow anymore. The tree is dead regardless how much the environmental supports are there. Just like that, on this height, that root is called Vedana feeling. Feeling is the root. Feeling is the root. If you cut the Vedana, regardless how much sense pleasures are around it, sense pleasures are always around because as long as there are some sense objects are there, sense pleasure is there. But for the sense pleasure to arise and do its own job, there must be the wedana feeling. Feeling is the one that is making it grow. So kilisa arises. Why do they arise? Because of the karma guna, sense pleasure. In a sense pleasure, if you remember, there are two parts. One is the sense desire and one is the sense object. Sense object you cannot eliminate it. The world is full of sense object. But desire for those senses, that's something you can do about it. Desire for these. If you have desire, automatically sense pleasure arises. If you have no desire for the sense object, desire, sense pleasure cannot arise anymore. Let's use an example. Monks. The monks renounce everything. These big diamond rings, a gold necklace, all these jewelries. It means nothing to them. No pleasure can arise out of these gold and silver and jewelries. But for ordinary people, a diamond, oh, you have to keep in a safety deposit box. Gold, silver, jewelries, all these things. Because we have desire for it. Because as we have desire for it, the sense pleasure arises. The same object, the monks have no desire for it. So there is no sense pleasure. Kama kuna can arise. Simple example. So in here, desire. Desire. How do we cut or stop or extinguish this desire? You must know how to do it. Properly, precisely, not randomly. There's a method, Buddha gave us the method. You have to cut or you have to throw the extinguisher to where it counts, at the spot where it comes. And these are in a meditation you already know. When we see something, what do we do? We observe, seeing, seeing, and then hearing, hearing, smelling, smelling, tasting, tasting, touching, touching, thinking, thinking. What is that? That is exactly the spot, the moment when the eyes come in contact with a sense object, feeling arises, and when it arises at that moment, you are mindful. And if you are mindful, you simply know this is the seeing process or seeing consciousness. And if you are mindful and if you know that it's a seeing process or seeing consciousness, then no craving arises, no desire arises. That's what we are doing in the practice. So basically, how do we extinguish the desire? In one word, with Satipattana Vipassana, or mindfulness. And if you are practicing mindfulness all the time in retreat intensely, at that moment it's not only seeing, seeing, seeing. You started to understand deeper and more penetrative, but it must be repetitive observation. Seeing mean it's a seeing consciousness. Seeing consciousness arises. And this how this seeing consciousness arises. And the eyes, functioning eye to be able to see it, those two must be in a straight line, and there must be attention. And when these three come in contact are together at the same moment, which we call it pasa, mental contact. At that moment, seeing happen. So when this conditions are there, seeing happen. When the conditions are there, seeing consciousness arises. Without these objects, no knowing comes in. Because of these objects, knowing arises. You also understand cause and effect right then and there on the spot. But you have to do the repetitive observation again and again and again. And if you keep on observing correctly, repeatedly, endlessly, so to speak, then you have a deeper understanding of this process will arise. Oh, this is object, this is external object, internal object, this is knowing, this is seeing consciousness, this is cause, this is effect. Not through the intellectual analytical process. It is simply experiential, intuitively understand. You must remember that a lot of people like to intellectually, analytically try and dissect that understanding. That is simply a knowledge. When you intuitively understand, when you experientially understand, that is called wisdom. That is called insight. And that large picture, you will have it. So that is how one can cut vidana. One can cut the main root, the drinking root, the root of the tree, the root of the rebirth, vidana. Do extinguish it, one must be mindful at all times. And when there is mindful, when the root is cut, there is no result, which means no rebirth. When there is no rebirth, there is no suffering, which means you have peace. So this continue continuity in this sansara or rebirth, repeated rebirth, is caused by what? Caused by wholesome and unwholesome actions. Kusala and Akusala. What is the cause of rebirth? Karma, wholesome and unwholesome action. That's it. But it is very hard to believe rebirth or life is produced through a process, through a phenomenon. We believe in many different points of view and opinions and ideas. But actually, to believe that life is due to past action. Life arises due to past wholesome and unwholesome actions. It is pretty difficult to believe. That is the reason reflective power, reflection alone about these processes will not give you a full understanding. Only the intuitive experience or direct experience will penetrate into this process and you will understand the phenomenon, you will understand the process squarely, clearly, and sharply. So in here, this one question arises all the time. We say, we understand, but when we really think, we always have doubt. Okay, this life I die. Next life I'm born. And even the stories, the Buddha has many, many, many past lives. There are stories in the scripture. How is it? And we say we keep on reborn, reborn, reborn again and again, and karma is the cause. How does the karma go from one life to the other? How is it? What is happening? That question has been asked many times. And even if one don't ask, still in your mind, which means there's a doubt. Even though you don't say, I'm doubtful about it, just thinking about that process, figuring out that's a doubt. That's a confusion, that's not knowing. So that one will go to a story. There's a book called Milinda Binya. Milinda is the name of a king, this very intelligent, wise king. He is called the torturers of the monks. You will know why. Milinda Binya is the wisdom, the intelligence, the wisdom of that great king. There's a big thick book translated into English from Pali. You can read it. And this king is very intelligent and bright. So what and he studies all types of religions. He's interested in philosophy and religions. He called all the great religious teachers and he debates them, he asked them questions, answer, and eventually come to the point they cannot answer. So eventually what happened is all different religious people, Buddhists, the monks, they are afraid to see them, this king. So some monks even ran away out of that country, out of the city, and live far away. And one day, this king Bilinga and a monk called Nagesaina, a Buddhist monk called Nagesainak, they met. And then those two spars, let spars with words, and many intricate aspects of lights. But in here specifically, we'll repeat one this one. And as this king is very melinda, milanda, I think, in this I'm pronouncing in Burmese accent. Milanda, Milinda, Milanda. And he's uh asked that as he is quite well-versed with all religion and scriptures, he asked the question. Well, you guys always say that there's Dhamma and Rupa, this body and the mind. Okay, this body and mind does a lot of wholesome and unwholesome actions. All the time doing. Yeah, I agree. This mind and body is doing a lot of wholesome and unwholesome actions. And also, you guys say this wholesome and unwholesome actions produce results. In other words, this wholesome and unwholesome actions are the cause and rebirth, the result is the effect. He said, Okay, that's what you said, that's what it is. Now, I'd like to know something. How does karma, okay, karma, all these wholesome and unwholesome actions, karma? How do they come along? Or how do they travel? Or how are they transported from one life to the other? That's a question he asked monk. Or how do are they transporting or going with what mechanism in this stream of continuity of life of consciousness? So the monk answered, well, great king, I can't answer. Or I can't show you the way, where and how these goods and bad deeds or wholesome and unwholesome actions are going to produce in the future. I don't know where they are going to produce in the future. I don't know how they are going to produce in future. And on the process from now to the future, I don't know where they are hiding. I don't know where they are. I don't know how they are transported. Maybe picking piggyback something? I don't know. I'm just using my words now. I don't know that something has been transporting them to somewhere. I have no idea about it. I can't answer you that. I can't show you that. And then the king asks, okay, fair enough. If you can't show, if you can't answer, that's fine. But can you answer me with a different through a different means? Do you have any other means to answer me? Or with analogy? That's a way to answer. The monk didn't say, I don't know, but he said, I can't answer, I can't show. So, can you answer me in a different way? And the monk said, Of course I can answer in a different way. Here it is. A tree, a healthy tree, a healthy growing tree. It has no fruits, but it has all the right requirements and conditions. Water, soil, sunlight, no parasite, no bugs, healthy and strong. It has all the requirements. And it has a full potential to bear fruits. And that when the tree is fully grown, when the time comes, fully grown, it's a healthy and vibrant, beautiful, delicious fruit grows. Why? Because they have good swine, because they have water and they have lots of sunlight and the fruit grow. So allow me to ask you something. Can you show me where the fruit is hiding? Is it in the root or is it hiding in the trunk? Or on the branches or in the leaves? Where are they hiding? And how are they transporting? From where to where? Can you show me how the fruit come to be and how it is transported? And the king said, no, I can't. I can't show you where the fruit is hiding, I can't show you how it is transported, they have to come about. The answer said no. And the monk said, at one time, at a certain condition, there's a healthy tree, and there's all the right conditions are there, and if they are there, eventually when the right times come, it will bear fruit. At an opportune time, at the right time it will bear fruit. Can you accept that? And the king says, Yes, I can accept it. And the monk said, in the same manner, as long as there's a realm of kilesa, and the realms of karma, kilesa buddha, karma buddha, mental definements, and wholesome and unwholesome actions. And this kilesa is always feeding with the tense pleasure and through the same objects and desire. There will be a rebirth. There will be a continuity of becoming. Karma is not transported by any means under any mechanism. It's a set of conditions operating under the law of cause and effect. And the king says, very good, very good. That's it. It's what to know when you are thinking about how karma can create life. How karma can produce rebirth. So may all of you be able to practice Satipatthana Vipassana, which is the root cutter, extinguisher of craving and feelings, and may you be able to experience supreme peace as soon as possible. Thank you very much.